Wednesday, March 14, 2007

A Revisionist History of the Church on Brady?

Question

Is the history of the Church on Brady being gradually rewritten? The focus of this discussion will center on matters of concern to those members who were a part of the Church on Brady before, during and after its transformation to Mosaic.


A Brief Timeline of the Church on Brady

(Compiled from interviews with ex-church members, written materials saved by said members and what little information can be gleaned from the internet)

1969 Thomas Wolf takes over as pastor at the First Southern Baptist Church of East Los Angeles located at 715 Brady Ave.

Over time, church members begin to simply refer to it as “the church on Brady.” Eventually, the name was changed to “The Church on Brady.” “Bro. Tom” pioneers “Oikos Evangelism”, a person-to-person evangelism strategy based on reaching out to one’s “circle of influence.” Church membership grows under his leadership.

Early 1980’s Bro. Tom plays a crucial role in the formation and implementation of the Montebello Police Chaplaincy Program.

During this time, the Church on Brady establishes several “daughter” congregations which later became independent churches. One of these was Inland Community Church in Chino, California.

“Brady” begins to experience overcrowding issues. Inquiries were made to the owners of several nearby properties but the owners were either unwilling to sell or set too high a purchase price.

1983 The congregation outgrows the original building. On May 1, the “Share the Vision” campaign is launched to raise funds for building expansion. The goal is to raise $700,000 to begin construction.

1985 On October 13, the “Build the Vision” campaign is initiated to raise additional funds to complete church reconstruction. The goal of $450,000 is met.

1987(?) Construction of the new sanctuary and support buildings is completed.

Early 1990’s The Church on Brady sponsors the “Spare Not” conference. Erwin McManus is asked to participate as a guest speaker.

1994 After 25 years of leadership, Pastor Thomas Wolf accepts a teaching position at Golden Gate Seminary in San Francisco. Erwin McManus is called to become Lead Pastor at the Church on Brady. Tom Wolf agrees to stay on as teaching pastor.

1996 Pastor Thomas Wolf is asked to leave the Church on Brady. Church elders cite “leadership conflicts” as the reason for this action.

By the late 1990’s the congregation had once again outgrown its facilities. Sunday worship services are expanded to include 3 morning services and one evening. The original church site can no longer expand to accommodate the growth in attendance and parking congestion.

1997 June 27, “Believe the Impossible” campaign. The congregation is asked to give sacrificially towards the purchase of new facilities. The initial fundraiser is held at Union Station in downtown Los Angeles. Between $500,000 and $700,000 was eventually raised over the course of the campaign. Mosaic leadership begins scouting for available properties. The promotional brochure for the campaign stated that the search would be conducted within the “Los Angeles area.”

1998(?) The name is changed from The Church on Brady to Mosaic. The name change was necessary since the congregation was moving towards selling the original church site on Brady Avenue in East Los Angeles.

Between 1997 and 2006 church leadership entered into serious negotiations for the following properties:

1. Rosemead School of Counseling located in Walnut.
2. Chicago Title Building, Rosemead (asking price far beyond what the congregation could afford).
3. A space in the soon to be built Artist and Loft center in downtown Los Angeles.
4. The Carlson Building.
5. Bimbo’s Bakery, Los Feliz (negotiations ended in 2004, not surviving through the escrow process).
6. New Hope church property, Los Feliz (2005). “Crash”, a fundraising campaign to raise additional money towards the purchase of New Hope, was announced to the congregation but was never implemented when the property owners failed to respond to further inquiries.

All of the above negotiations failed.

*An informal inquiry was made to the owners of the Soho nightclub in downtown Los Angeles, but there were no formal negotiations to purchase it. In 2006, informal inquiries were made regarding an abandoned school property in Silverlake.


The Church on Brady under Pastor Thomas Wolf

Under the leadership of Pastor Thomas Wolf, the Church on Brady, a small, nearly dead church in an economically depressed part of East Los Angeles, rose to become a thriving multi-cultural congregation which earned a national reputation for its innovative approach to personal, one-on-one evangelism along with accolades from the Southern Baptist Convention for its unusual commitment to the foreign mission field. In addition to its commitment to evangelism, the Church on Brady fostered an extensive discipleship ministry for its members. The Church on Brady was also known for its positive contributions to community involvement not only in East Los Angeles but also in several of its surrounding cities.

Below are the items that turned up during an internet search on the Church on Brady:

Find Articles.com Scouting for Souls, March 1996, Marc Spiegler (Brief commentary on the early work of Pastor Thomas Wolf)
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m4021/is_n3_v18/ai_18056292

When Pastor Thomas Wolf first came to Southern California's Church on Brady in 1969, the situation seemed dire. The Southern Baptist church in East Los Angeles had seen its historically Anglo following erode to 45 people as the neighborhood became mostly Mexican. Facing fiscal problems and demographic change, church elders even considered selling off the dilapidated property. Today, after more than a quarter century of Wolf's leadership, the Church on Brady boasts services averaging 700 worshippers, drawn from an ethnic mix as diverse as East L.A. itself.

Global Spectrum & University Institute


http://www.crew-ministries.com/Crew%20Ministries/global%20spectrum.htm

[Outlines the accomplishments of Pastor Thomas Wolf and Carol Davis.]

From 1969-1994 they worked in the future. The Church on Brady brokered a new kind of American church, the apostolic type, rather than the traditional pastoral type. George Hunter III, Reaching the Unreached (1997) examined 13 American apostolic churches. The congregations included Chicago-area Willow Creek and Orange County California’s Saddleback. Though numerically the least by a significant gap, George Hunter found The Church of Brady to be “...the most apostolic congregation in America.” Its focus on multiplication rather than maintenance produced unusual results

Universal Disciple: History of the Church on Brady
http://www.universal-disciple.com/about%20us.htm

[Text is almost identical to the above but this portion is more date specific.]

Perhaps that is why in the early 1990's the International Mission Board (IMB) of the Southern Baptists informed the Church on Brady that they were sending more missionaries through the IMB than any other church. That translates to first among the 45,000 congregations of the largest evangelical Protestant group in America. At the time, from a base of 400 worshipers, The Church on Brady had sent some 12 to the mission fields. Second place went to a 3,000 worshipers congregation with 3. When they left in the late 1990's, Brady was sending more than 55 full time missionaries. Such a sending ratio places the Church on Brady at the time of Thom Wolf’s transition from senior pastor in 1994 as a kind of Pacific Rim/West Coast Hernnhut of the late 20th century. Hernnhut is the Moravian community of Central Europe in the 18th century. This is God working through ordinary people.


The Church on Brady’s original mission statement included the phrase, “…to be a spiritual reference point east of downtown Los Angeles and a sending base to the ends of the earth.” This original statement was penned by Pastor Thomas Wolf and reflected the church building’s geographical location.

Erwin McManus, the current pastor of Mosaic, repeated this statement in this 2002 interview with T.C. On-Line, but omits the reference to East Los Angeles.

T.C. On-line.org “Mosaic” April 2002, by Mary Jane Welch
http://archives.tconline.org/Stories/april02/mosaic.html
“It’s that core value that has made Mosaic one of the most missionary-sending churches in the Southern Baptist Convention. More than 40 overseas workers are scattered across the world, and many more are preparing to go.
“We realized that Mosaic’s vision is to be a spiritual reference point throughout Los Angeles and a sending base to the ends of the earth,” Lead Erwin McManus explains.



The Church on Brady/Mosaic under Erwin McManus

During the 1980’s and early 1990’s the Church on Brady experienced phenomenal growth in attendance and was facing serious overcrowding issues. An effort was made to purchase a larger property that became available near the corner of Brady Avenue and Whittier Blvd. but was unsuccessful. Attempts were also made to purchase homes on adjacent lots but these efforts also failed. It was at this time that the congregation embarked on a massive fundraising campaign to raise money for a complete church remodeling and expansion on the same lot. {See timeline.}

After the building expansion, attendance continued to grow until once again the church was facing overcrowding issues coupled with serious parking concerns. This time there was no more room on the church properties for expansion. Around this time, Bro. Tom was feeling a pull towards university teaching and began to consider stepping down from his position as lead pastor. He and his staff advisors began to look for a suitable candidate to replace him as lead pastor. It was during a Spare Not conference held at the Church on Brady that the congregation was first introduced to Erwin McManus.

The Church on Brady comes under the leadership of Erwin McManus in 1994.

Conflicting Statements made since the transition of the Church on Brady to Mosaic

The following statements have been made since the transfer of leadership to McManus. These statements appear to contain facts that contradict the history of the Church on Brady. The most troubling statements are those that are direct quotes from McManus himself.

In the following excerpt from his own work, McManus appears to be dismissing the accomplishments made before his arrival at the Church on Brady.

“Unwrapping the Present” by Erwin Raphael McManus. Excerpt can be found at:
http://www.ekerk.co.za/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=963&Itemid=437
Update: This link is now broken. Please see instead Catalyst Monthly http://www.injoy.com/Newsletters/catalyst/Full/default.aspx?article_id=22

When I moved to L.A. in 1992, I discovered that a journey of 20 years is as treacherous as a journey of 200. While we weren't trapped in the traditional era of hymns and robes, we'd settled into a 1970s groove. The church had been a forerunner in so many areas and was known for its innovation. Yet the journey from The Church on Brady to our future as Mosaic was a difficult one. The best way to describe it is that we traveled at the speed of sound to get to the present (the speed of light would have killed us!).


When speaking about the reasons why Mosaic does not meet in its own building, McManus fails to mention the “Believe the Impossible” campaign, the “Crash” campaign or the efforts made to secure a new building.

CR On-Line, January 2007, “Growth Trends”, Dr. John N. Vaughan
http://www.thecronline.com/mag_article.php?mid=860&mname=January
(Side note: when considering the words, “McManus saw the church’s attendance double from 550 to 1,000 during the first few years,” keep in mind the growth pattern that had already been established prior to his leadership.)

McManus saw the church’s attendance double from 550 to 1,000 people during the first few years. When McManus came, the pulpit was removed and film clips were being used in worship services. Year long Bible book studies were replaced with 9-12 week Bible book studies. Attendance reached about 1,500 in 2003, 2,000 in 2004 and 3,000 by 2006. After the church property was sold, the church began expansion to multiple rented simultaneous locations.


BP News, Jan 10, 2001, Brittany Jarvis
http://www.sbcbaptistpress.net/bpnews.asp?ID=10121

McManus said God gave him a vision years ago to claim Los Angeles for God. But when it came to buying a meeting place, his small congregation did not have enough money to purchase a nightclub that was for sale.* Years went by and the nightclub was sold. After a quick meeting between McManus and the new owners, the congregation was allowed to rent the club on Sundays for a nominal fee.
*See Timeline

Interview with Infuze Magazine
http://www.infuzemag.com/interviews/archives/2006/10/erwin_mcmanus.html

Erwin McManus:

So some of the things we've done: we've sold our property. I know of churches that sell their property but it's always to buy new ones. We sold our property and went homeless for eight years. Two years ago, we had seven locations in one year. We actually stopped meeting in places with one day's notice that today is our last day. Here we are, we're now a congregation of 3,200 in seven services in four locations across the city. Last year, I was driving 198 miles across the city to get to each location. It was insane.


From Pepperdine University, The Graphic, “Dancing from the Pulpit”, Meredith Rodriquez, News Assistant
http://graphic.pepperdine.edu/living/2005/2005-01-13-mosaic.htm

McManus was a key player in Mosaic’s development and attention-grabbing growth. He started an alternative service to the now-closed church on Brady, six years ago. Since then, it has grown from fewer than 100 members to nearly 2,000.


[Note: McManus took over as the lead pastor of the Church on Brady; he did not begin an “alternative service.” Later in the same article: [Bethany Bovine, a Mosaic church member is quoted:]

“It is not so much about our own agenda here at Mosaic,” said Bovine. “People are passionate about people here.” Perhaps this is why Mosaic does not own a church building. Leaders do not want to focus on a building, rather they want to focus on the body of believers, Bovine said. Instead, the congregation meets at William Carey International University in Pasadena and at a rented salsa club called The Mayan in West Los Angeles. McManus speaks at all three services.


Excerpts from Tu Cuidad Magazine, December/January 2007. Cover story: “Got Jesus Dude? Born in El Salvador, born again in the U.S., Erwin McManus now leads the hippest ministry in L.A.”, Yvette Doss [Taken from hard copy of the magazine]

By his fifth year at the Church on Brady, McManus had persuaded members to sell their building and expand into rented spaces throughout the city. They would become a roving, nomadic congregation made up, as McManus says, of the people, the community. “We did that because we didn’t want people to think the church was a building.”



March, 2007

Ten years later, the congregation continues to meet at various rented venues throughout the greater metropolitan Los Angeles area.

In the intervening years since the “Believe the Impossible” campaign, Mosaic has shifted its ministry emphasis to serving “...the top 15% of innovators and early adopters often overlooked by most churches.” CR On-Line, January 2007, “Growth Trends”, Dr. John N. Vaughan
http://www.thecronline.com/mag_article.php?mid=860&mname=January

Two of the results of this shift in emphasis are:

1. The congregation’s demographics are now mostly comprised of young, single adults with no personal knowledge of the history of the church they are attending.

2. Many of the original members (who do not fit the current ministry emphasis) have left Mosaic to join other congregations.

A few former members requested and received refunds of their donations to the “Believe the Impossible” campaign. The last known donor to request a refund did so in March, 2007. This person received an e-mail response indicating that while a refund would be sent, the money from the “Believe the Impossible” campaign has been spent.

Sometime in February, 2007, the “Believe the Impossible” funds were used to pay off a second mortgage on the financially troubled Inland Community Church, one of the “daughter” churches of the original Church on Brady mentioned above. This property now belongs to Mosaic and has been renamed Mosaic Inland. It is still being used by the original “daughter” congregation. This property is located in San Bernardino County, a little more than 30 miles away from the original site on Brady Ave. in East L.A. and well beyond the original search parameters given to the donors at the fundraising banquet.


In Conclusion:

Since taking over as Pastor of the Church on Brady, Erwin McManus has made many puzzling statements regarding the history of the church he inherited. It seems odd that some errors have been allowed to remain uncorrected while others have been repeated.

The quote below is from an interview in Church Business, “Swimming Upstream: Erwin Raphael McManus’ Postmodern Ministry Goes Against the Current — and Gets Results”, 02/23/2000. by RaeAnn Slaybaugh.

McManus is commenting on the alterations made to a cover photo of him that was featured on a Christian magazine.

http://www.churchbusiness.com/articles/721cover.html

McManus: I think Christian books aren’t as honest as we think. To be frank, a Christian magazine just did a very nice article on me. In the photo, I was wearing a shirt that had a gun on it shooting out butterflies. When I got the magazine in the mail, they’d PhotoShopped out the gun.

When I saw it, I thought, This is the inherent problem with Christianity. We’re not honest. We distort and recreate truth in a way that is palatable to us. When we do that, people hear our messages and they think they aren’t real and they aren’t honest. We think that because we have the truth, everything we do is truthful. We need to not only preach the truth, but be truthful.


This blogger wonders how many former members have been left with an “unpalatable” taste in their mouths.

33 comments:

Unknown said...

WOW! I am impressed with the documentation and the integrity of this blog. Thanmks Yvonne, for being very clear and for taking the time to "cross your t's" and "dot your i's". This is very well done.

-Frank Loaiza

Unknown said...

Erwin Spoke at the National Religious Broadcaster's Convention REACH Feb 17-20,2007 in Florida.

McManus says:

And I can tell you when I began this journey in L.A. fifteens years ago I was just an attender at Mosaic. It wasn't called Mosaic then, it had a different name. It was called The Church on Brady, which actually had a legal name of "First Southern Baptist Church of East Los Angeles (audience laughter). That's a beautifully relevant name, isn't it? (audience laughter)

And I was just an attender there, and the pastor asked me if I would consider taking over the congregation–or leading the congregation. And he'd been there twenty-five years and I was very adamant and very clear I have no desire to be a pastor. I wanted to do something meaningful with my life (audience laughter). And I had the mission of Christ on my heart; I wanted to see the world reached for Him. And I, after examining the local church felt it was no longer a valid instrument to really bring cultural transformation.

And, and, through a number of things–through God just beating me up–and reminding me how much He loves the church and I need to love the church like he loves the church, next thing I knew I was the pastor of this place. And ah, and it did not go well. I mean, fifteen years ago I started slicing films and bringing them into my talks and buying fortune cookies and putting my points in them on Sunday mornings.

And, and little did I know it would create such extraordinary turmoil that I would have meeting after meeting after meeting because people felt what we were doing was immoral, unbiblical, unethical. But I think the first conversation I had in my office with an elder and a couple, six months after I was there, he came to me and was very upset where the church was going and then he said this: "The church has become too evangelistic." (audience laughs)

And I was a young man then, without as many wounds and scars as I have now; but I looked at him and I said: "I want to be able to quote you accurately." Because I knew I'd be quoting him the rest of my life (audience laughs)

I said: "You just said, 'the church is too evangelistic.'"

And he said: "That's right."

And I said, "You know, I don't know a lot about the future, but I know this; if you don't like us today, you're gonna hate us a year from now." (audience laughs)

(NRB Reach 2007, CD Rom, 21:49-23:52)

I beleive he was referring to me, but he has not returned my phone calls, when I asked him in a voicemail I left last week.

-Frank Loaiza

Mr. Aguilar said...

"McManus was a key player in Mosaic’s development and attention-grabbing growth. He started an alternative service to the now-closed church on Brady, six years ago. Since then, it has grown from fewer than 100 members to nearly 2,000."

Yvonne, this is a very key point. What we have now is two different writers reporting the same thing (The LA Times and now this) . An alternative history is right. Is "Anonymous" who accused me of slander going to retract HIS statement?

Yvonne W. said...

So Frank,

Did you say, "The church is too evangelistic?"

Yvonne


(This is what I meant to write earlier.)

Unknown said...

Yvonne,
I never made that statement. What I expressed to Erwin, and Gerardo Marti, (at the time), was that I felt that MOSAIC was too unbalanced, not enough Discipleship was going on. We were too focussed on Evangelizing peple and not "feeding the sheep" There was no Discipleship going on.
What I actually remember saying is that, "I think we have become too focussed on Evangelism and not enough on Discipleship."
"I think we need to also focus on training and making disciples, and not just Evangelizing." I remember clarifying what I meant, and I was very specific.

It's sad that he has to twsit the Truth to get some laughs. Robbie Sortino has told me that Erwin has quoted me to him saying that I said, that "Mosaic was too Evangelistic". This is simply not true.


-Frank Loaiza

Anonymous said...

Ruben,

You were not accused of slander. Please carefully recheck your facts.

Yvonne W. said...

This is what was written at "Ruben's Reviews":

Anonymous said...
Frank: the LA Times wrote the article not Erwin. Attributing that "history" to Erwin is libel/slander, and I would hope it is unintentional. You seem to be changing the story to meet your needs and make him look bad.

March 12, 2007 12:39 PM


As I read it, this "accusation" was directed at Frank which makes even less sense since he was merely commenting on what Ruben wrote.

Hopefully, this is the last time I will have to expound on this point.

Yvonne

Anonymous said...

I believe Bro. Tom left in 1998, I mean pushed out.

Anonymous said...

Since then, it has grown from fewer than 100 members to nearly 2,000.[attenders]"


"You see I have brought more soldiers than you!" - King Leonidas in 300

Cris Aguilar said...

Yvonne,

Thank you for your work on this blog. There is so much here that I am going to have to come back to reread.

I must admit as I read it I felt both sadness and anger. This church has such a deep history of service and prayer. For Erwin to dismiss it as he has done is wrong. There were so many ministries that made a difference in the community. The members of this church served and gave sacrificially for the sake of others. Programs for those suffering with addictions (12 step type programs), Employment (how to find and keep a job), Food Pantry, Share The Blessing (one of my favorites), vacation bible school in the projects of Los Angeles. Oh and wait, don’t forget all the bible classes that were offered. Real bible classes. Imagine that.

The First Southern Baptist Church of East Los Angeles and The Church on Brady may not be fancy names for churches but they and it's members shouldn’t be discarded and dismissed as if irrelevant. I am an outsider now but I am sickened that this has been allowed to happen. The only bright spot to all of this is the truth is being revealed. The wall is coming down, brick by brick.

Thanks again for your hard work!

Cris

doug said...

Yvonne,

The post from March 14, 2007 8:51 PM above is correct. Bro Tom was asked to leave in 1998, not 1996. Also, it might be interesting to mention that Bro Tom was appointed to the teaching pastor position by the congregation on the same night Erwin was appointed into the senior pastor position by the congregation. There were two separate votes that night, and the results were the same in both counts... a lot of people forget. Also, the teaching pastor position he took on (and from which he was later asked to remove himself) was a no-pay position. He abdicated all salary from the church from the time he first took it on because he was to be receiving an income from Golden Gate.

Anonymous said...

Erwin took over a church that was already growing under godly evangelism, DISCIPLESHIP, and rigorous Bible study. I guess this history of the Church on Brady flies in the face of the Emergent Church's claim that the "old" ways of doing "Church" doesn't work so Erwin tries to dismiss or minimize it.

Christ commanded apostle Peter, from whom the Church was largely begun, to "feed My sheep" three times. How do you "feed My sheep?" Discipleship and Bible study. If there is ever a TIMELESS church growth formula, that is it. But I rather call it a "church strengthening formula."

Anonymous said...

Yvonne,

I appreciate you research and work on creating an accurate picture and history of The Church on Brady (really, that is not sarcastic). I was a part of Brady from 1983 - 1988. Those were good year!
I would however say that if you cannot find more positive results from current day Mosaic, you are overlooking alot just to serve a cause. I don't agree with everything Erin does, but to deny or downplay that the community of Mosaic (which is much bigger than Erwin now) is doing some pretty impressive stuff around the world would be to overlook alot. Keep up the good work

Yvonne W. said...

Anonymous,

I applaud the many good things that present day Mosaic is doing and thank the Lord for the lives that are being transformed through its ministry, however; I do feel there are more than a few disturbing issues that have not been addressed by its leadership.

I simply hold to the truth of God's word that an overseer "must be above reproach." Titus 1:7 and 2:7-8.

Until I hear some type of official statement from the leadership at Mosaic and specifically Erwin McManus I feel I have no choice but to continue to ask guestions.

I do thank you for your respectfully worded response.

Yvonne

Anonymous said...

Hi as a outsider i'm a little confused,what do all these anti Mosaic sites want..Is it for Erwin to leave and replace him with a older leader?

Aren't the vast amount of people in this church (far bigger now)happy there,surly the majority aren't going to listen to the minority and act on what they say..

I'm fully aware i could have all my facts wrong,so be gentle with me

I'm not a fan of Erwin but it just seems a waste of energy move on maybe??
GB andy

Yvonne W. said...

Anonymous said...
Hi as a outsider i'm a little confused,what do all these anti Mosaic sites want..Is it for Erwin to leave and replace him with a older leader?


Hello GB andy,

My intention in writing this article was not to be anti-Mosaic but rather pro-Church on Brady.

If you want to know what those other sites want you'll have to read their mission statements. What I want is to preserve the history of the Church on Brady. I believe the people who donated their time, hard work, resources and money in the service of Jesus Christ in ministry to the lost deserve to have that legacy preserved.

What I also want are answers from the current leadership regarding the issues that have been raised here as well as those at other sites. So far, I am still waiting for those answers.

As to what may need to happen once those answers are given, I can't say until I've heard them.

Aren't the vast amount of people in this church (far bigger now)happy there,surly the majority aren't going to listen to the minority and act on what they say..

My attention is focused on the paid and elected leadership of Mosaic. If you consider those few in such positions to be "the minority" for whom the "majority",
...aren't going to listen to... then Mosaic has far greater problems on its hands than dealing with the criticism of a few bloggers.

I'm fully aware i could have all my facts wrong,so be gentle with me

I'm not a fan of Erwin but it just seems a waste of energy move on maybe??


GB andy, I "moved on" a long time ago when I left Mosaic. Unfortunately, the leadership at Mosaic has continued to act in a less than honorable way towards former members and even current ones.

Please continue to investigate the facts for yourself.

Thank you for your gentle questions, I hope I have answered you in kind.

Yvonne

Anonymous said...

quote "My attention is focused on the paid and elected leadership of Mosaic. If you consider those few in such positions to be "the minority" for whom the "majority",
...aren't going to listen to... then Mosaic has far greater problems on its hands than dealing with the criticism of a few bloggers.""

What's the general feeling of Mosaic members? It's them I was referring to as the majority, I take it they're happy? They must see you as having the minority opinion regarding their church, right?
GB andy

Yvonne W. said...

GB andy,

I'm not going to speculate on the general feeling of Mosaic members. My concern at this point is focused on the leaders and I know they are following these blogs very carefully.

Yvonne

Anonymous said...

Yvonne,
I believe Jesus was in the minority? Am I wrong on this one.

Yvonne W. said...

Anonymous said...
Yvonne,
I believe Jesus was in the minority? Am I wrong on this one.


What exactly do you mean by this statement? If you mean, "I believe Jesus was in the minority (placing him in the same category as the leadership of Mosaic because He is The Leader.}", then my answer to,

Am I wrong on this one?

...is, yes. You are wrong. The Bible contains no examples of Jesus participating in the types of behavior that the leaders of Mosaic have allegedly engaged in.

To all posters:

From now on, please stick to the subject at hand and address the FACTS and/or QUESTIONS that have been presented in this article.

Yvonne

Anonymous said...

What are the facts and what are the questions? I’m not really sure what the point is of this particular blog. What was the point of posting mosaics history?

Anonymous said...

oops..sorry about that I just thought that truth doesn't look at majority or minority. Sometimes the majority is wrong look at the south during the 50s.

Anonymous said...

Do you actually believe anyone at Mosaic is interested in what happens here? That they are concerned with facts or questions.

Yvonne W. said...

oops..sorry about that I just thought that truth doesn't look at majority or minority.

No need to apologize, I see now that I misinterpreted your comment.

Yvonne

Yvonne W. said...

Oncoming Traffic,

You are a frequent poster at the Mosaic of Pain website. In answer to your post here, please refer back to that site.

Yvonne

Yvonne W. said...

Anonymous said...
Do you actually believe anyone at Mosaic is interested in what happens here? That they are concerned with facts or questions.

March 16, 2007 10:31 PM


I've already said I know people at Mosaic have taken an interest in what happens here.
My hope is that they will at least consider the information that has been presented.

Yvonne

Anonymous said...

Yvonne -

The following link clearly captures in images what you have outlined here in words...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=PuZy5mJp9m8

Yvonne W. said...

Anonymous,

Thank you for the video. Following is another set of clips I received from a named source.

Yvonne

Yvonne W. said...

These are from loweyesah.

A retro tribute to the Church on Brady
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=2016244593

The "Believing the Impossible" Campaign
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=2016077123

Yvonne W. said...

Question:

Whatever happened to those stained glass windows featured in the video? I remember they were saved from the demolition of the original building and supposedly kept safe until such a time when the congregation would meet in a new building; then they were to be displayed as a reminder of our past.

Does anyone know where they are?

Yvonne

Anonymous said...

Yvonne,
I am not a former Mosaic member nor Church on Brady member, but I appreciate what you have done on your blog. I know that you are proud of the work God did at CoB and you don't want anyone making the former congregation look like God wasn't working there so Erwin McManus looks like a hero that saved the day.

Anonymous said...

I saw the stained glass windows just before we left the brady site. my guess is they're still there.

Anonymous said...

I was a member of The Church on Brady and of Mosaic. I have wonderful memories of both, and my friendships there and the leadership there changed my life. I am forever greatful for the work of Bro. Tom and what Brady built. I am grateful to Erwin for his inspiration and "revolutionary" vision of the 1990s.

But I am confused by the things Erwin is saying about Brady now. I don't remember things happening the way he's described, and it seems disrespectful to me.

(Conna Dewart)