Response to Erwin McManus Interview with Church Executive

. . . continued from previous post

The CE Interview: Erwin McManus, Senior Pastor, Mosaic Church, Los Angeles,CA
Volume 2008, Issue 10 - 10 2008 Erwin McManus, Senior Pastor, Mosaic Church
by: Ronald E. Keener
http://www.churchexecutive.com/article.asp?IndexID=1108

In his latest interview, Erwin McManus has not only once again repeated the same erroneous facts about the history of the Church on Brady but he has also managed to find new ways to insult its former members.

In addition to these, this interview includes other erroneous, misleading, or just plain odd statements regarding Mosaic, Alex McManus and Erwin McManus.

Regarding Mosaic


The bizarre "statistics" given for Mosaic

Just how many "ethnicities" are there at Mosaic?

The CE interviewer states:

Mosaic has 50 ethnicities; it’s called one of the world’s most diverse congregations.

McManus does not correct the CE interviewer's number, however; the number of "ethnicities at Mosaic" fluctuates wildly each time Erwin is interviewed or a new item about Mosaic appears in print. Here is a brief list of the various numbers that have been cited:

40

Monday Morning Insight blog http://mondaymorninginsight.com/index.php/site/comments/erwin_mcmanus_american_christians_are_incredibly_self_indulgent/

50

The Presbyterian Outlook Leader of Mosaic says he almost tore his church apart to make it successful Written by Leslie Scanlon Friday, 10 October 2003 00:00 http://www.pres-outlook.com/news-and-analysis/1-news-a-analysis/1909-leader-of-mosaic-says-he-almost-tore-his-church-apart-to-make-it-successful.html

55

The Clause (Azusa Pacific University)
http://clause.apu.edu/April%2011/news/article2.html

60

Crosswalk.com Erwin McManus Advocates Following the Barbarian Way
Janet Chismar Senior Editor, News & Culture
http://www.crosswalk.com/root/1324251/page0/

See also:
Christian Examiner
http://www.christianexaminer.com/Articles/Articles%20Mar05/Art_Mar05_09.html

80

Monday Morning Insight (reprint of article in Infuze Magazine, no longer available online) Google cached page
http://209.85.173.104/search?q=cache:P8bmqBC3cAIJ:mondaymorninginsight.com/index.php/site/comments/an_interview_with_erwin_mcmanus/+Erwin+McManus,+nationalities&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=3&gl=us

See also:
NationMaster
http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Mosaic-Church
This is also an excellent history of the Church on Brady.

Chistianbook.com
Description of Eric Bryant’s “Peppermint Filled Piñatas”
See section entitled, Publisher’s Weekly http://www.christianbook.com/Christian/Books/product/?item_no=73848&p=1006338
Eric Bryant is the executive pastor for Mosaic so one would think he would know how many "ethnicities" there are at his church.

85

Church Report Online
January 2007, by Dr. John N. Vaughan
http://www.thecronline.com/mag_article.php?mid=860&mname=January

(The numbers and citations given above are just a small sample of the many variations given for the number of "ethnicities" at Mosaic.)


PLEASE DO NOT MISS THIS POINT!

Do these numbers make sense?

A statistical range of 40 - 85 different "ethnicities in attendance at Mosaic" is a HUGE span to swallow. To better illustrate this point, let's look at just the time period between January 2007 when Dr. John N. Vaughan wrote his profile on Mosaic and September 2008, the date of this latest interview with Erwin McManus and Church Executive:

According to these two dates alone, the reader is expected to believe that in the past year and 9 months, Mosaic has dropped from a high of 85 "ethnicities" down to 50.

This means that Mosaic no longer has representatives from 35 "ethnicities."


But how does Mosaic define “ethnicity" in the first place and how is this data being collected? As far as I know, Erwin McManus did away with the concept of "registration cards" soon after he took over the pastorship of the Church on Brady so how does Mosaic know how many "ethnicities" are represented by it's membership?

Ultimately, the question of defining "ethnicity" becomes rather meaningless because it is such a confusing and subjective endeavor . Even the U.S. Center for World Mission's "Joshua Project" finds it to be a difficult and daunting task.

Joshua Project
http://www.joshuaproject.net/how-many-people-groups.php

In my opinion, citing the number of "ethnicities" in attendance at any church is nothing more than grandstanding for publicity.

A short side note:

In this CE interview, Erwin says,

"I also had people come to me and say if one more Asian comes into our church, we’re leaving the church. We had maybe 10 Asians in our church and now we’re almost 50 percent Asian. We have so many people from Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Vietnamese, and Burmese backgrounds."

I don't know if anyone said this to Erwin but I do know that such a racist attitude was not characteristic of the Church on Brady.


Regarding Alex McManus


In this interview with CE, Erwin mentions his brother Alex McManus:

Alex was a key leader here at Mosaic for several years. In 2004 he launched the International Mentoring Network [theimn.com] to discover, develop and deploy leaders. He describes his work as being part social network, part cyber seminary and part idea studio.

What Erwin doesn't mention is that his brother was fired from Mosaic for being too “out there” in his beliefs.


Alex McManus has posted several lists of his strange thoughts at his blog:

“Into the Mystic”
http://www.xanga.com/alexmcmanus
A List: Things I’m thinking about (Part 1-3)

Alex McManus also has a new book coming out soon with this interesting title:

Making the World Human Again
Jesus’ Quest to Save the Future from Religion
(Coming January 2009)
Available through Zondervan:
http://www.zondervan.com/Cultures/en-US/Product/ProductDetail.htm?ProdID=com.zondervan.9780310302568&QueryStringSite=Zondervan



Alex McManus did in fact, start the International Mentoring Network, Inc.

(Don't confuse this with the International Mentoring Network Organization, http://www.imno.org/imno.asp, they are completely separate corporations!)

In regards to the IMN, Alex McManus is also:

President

Director

Treasurer

. . . and his wife, Adriana, is Secretary.


Unfortunately, as of September 1, 2008, the state of Nevada has REVOKED the corporate status of the International Mentoring Network..

Please refer to the Nevada Secretary of State Business Entity Search:
https://esos.state.nv.us/SOSServices/AnonymousAccess/CorpSearch/CorpSearch.aspx



Regarding Erwin McManus


Erwin's College and Seminary Years

There is little public information about Erwin McManus' college years but the following is from his own published bio:

http://erwinmcmanus.com/bio/

Erwin is a native of El Salvador, and is a graduate of the University of North Carolina and Southwestern Theological Seminary.

According to Erwin's own website, he is a graduate of the University of North Carolin AND Southwestern Theological Seminary. So why does Erwin tell CE that he "dropped out" of seminary?

CE: You left seminary and what was your first assignment?

EM: I went to seminary for a semester and dropped out. It really seemed incredibly outdated and antiquated and irrelevant to the culture that I knew. Because of my faith I had such a high view of the Scripture, really the seminary didn’t have as high view of Scripture as I did. They kept bringing up theories that would question the Scriptures.

I’d been in a secular university studying the Bible under an orthodox Jewish professor who had a higher view of the Old Testament. So it was kind of a curious thing for me. I started multiple churches among the poor or homeless or prostitutes or drug dealers or drug addicts. So I spent my time reaching the community that I felt Jesus cared about.

Several other bios about Erwin McManus say that he graduated from seminary:

Wikipedia


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erwin_McManus





Bluefish TV


http://www.bluefishtv.com/Bio/1024/Erwin_McManus





The Veritas Forum


http://www.veritas.org/media/presenters/60





Bethel University


http://seminary.bethel.edu/faculty/bssp/mcmanus-e





For more references to his "graduation" from Seminary, run a Google search using "Erwin McManus Southwestern Theological Seminary."

Maybe Erwin McManus did "drop out" of seminary at some point, but according to his own biography he must have "dropped back in" sometime later in order to graduate with his Master of Divinity degree.



Erwin's Resume

There is also very little public information about the job history of Erwin McManus aside from the brief statements he has made about himself. Unfortunately, even on those rare occasions when Erwin does say something about himself, he often doesn't provide any critical details that would make it easy to verify his statements.

1. In this interview for CE, the interviewer asked Erwin about his work as a futurist in his "own company."

Erwin doesn't correct the interviewer's assumption that he had his "own company" but take note of the fact that Erwin doesn't give a name for this company either.


2. Erwin often states that he "worked among the urban poor" in Dallas, Texas for 10 years before coming to California yet he never identifies what group or church he might have been working with during those years. This is really odd.

In the CE interview, Erwin claims he started "multiple churches among the poor or homeless or prostitutes or drug dealers or drug addicts." Starting "multiple churches" is an impressive point to put on one's resume so why doesn't Erwin give the name of any of these churches?



The Wikipedia article for Erwin McManus states that he started "two churches" while in Dallas but the editors of Wikipedia have flagged this claim with "citation needed."

Wikipedia: Explanation for Citation needed
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed




3. Then there are the numerous "non profit" ventures that Erwin McManus has been involved with:



a. The "unnamed" non profit he started with a Catholic Nun just two weeks after he became a christian:



Thomas Nelson Newsroom
http://news.thomasnelson.com/2008/03/01/dream-wide-awake/

As a 20-year-old philosophy student, he had a break-through and discovered his faith.

Inspired by this ultimate wake-up call, Erwin put his faith into action and immediately started a non-profit with a nun helping prostitutes escape from Jamaican drug cartels. Erwin remained committed to this dangerous yet life-saving work for the next 10 years of his life.

Christians in Cinema:
http://www.christiancinema.com/catalog/newsdesk_info.php?newsdesk_id=666

I came to Christ the evening of August 20, and I came back to college the next week. I started my first non-profit organization within two weeks of becoming a believer.

Why doesn't Erwin McManus give the name for this non-profit?




b. Global Impact



Several of Erwin’s bios identify him as the president and/or founder of a non profit called “Global Impact” but there is no other information available about exactly what this organization was, where it was based, or what its mission was.

When I contacted the executive pastor of Mosaic, Eric Bryant, to ask him what Global Impact was, all he would tell me is that “it no longer exists.” I have no idea if this is the same non-profit Erwin started in college.

For more about Global Impact, see my previous posts:

Non-Profit or Non-Existent?
http://solidfoods.blogspot.com/2007/04/non-profit-or-non-existent.html#links


Erwin Mcmanus' Global Impact
http://solidfoods.blogspot.com/2007/05/erwin-mcmanus-global-impact.html





c. The "Awakens"



I have already devoted extensive coverage to these in my previous posts about "Awaken":

Non-Profit or Non-Existent?
http://solidfoods.blogspot.com/2007/04/non-profit-or-non-existent.html#links

A Wake Up Call to Erwin McManus and "Awaken"
http://solidfoods.blogspot.com/2007/05/wake-up-call-to-erwin-mcmanus-and.html

Part two to above:
http://solidfoods.blogspot.com/2007/05/wake-up-call-to-erwin-mcmanus-and_05.html

The Awaken Humanity Music Festival
http://solidfoods.blogspot.com/2007/05/awaken-humanity-music-festival.html

Shining Daylight on Erwin McManus's Awaken (Parts 1 - 4)

http://solidfoods.blogspot.com/2007/08/shining-daylight-on-erwin-mcmanus.html

http://solidfoods.blogspot.com/2007/09/shining-daylight-on-erwin-mcmanus.html

http://solidfoods.blogspot.com/2007/09/shining-daylight-on-erwin-mcmanus_03.html

http://solidfoods.blogspot.com/2007/09/shining-daylight-on-erwin-mcmanus_05.html

Awaken Humanity or Mosaic Ministry?
http://solidfoods.blogspot.com/2007/12/awaken-humanity-or-mosaic-ministry.html

Erwin McManus: Awaken 2008
http://solidfoods.blogspot.com/2007/12/erwin-mcmanus-awaken-2008.html

Awaken Humanity's Slice of the Mosaic Pie
http://solidfoods.blogspot.com/2008/02/awaken-humanitys-slice-of-mosaic-pie.html

Wide Awake or Why Wake?
http://solidfoods.blogspot.com/2008/07/wide-awake-or-why-wake.html

Erwin McManus and The McName Game
http://solidfoods.blogspot.com/2008/07/erwin-mcmanus-and-mcname-game.html

Mosaic LA Film Festival
http://solidfoods.blogspot.com/2008/08/mosaic-la-film-festival.html



Three of these "Awakens" have had their corporate status suspended by the state of California:


Awaken Center for Creativity


Awaken International


Awaken


The corporate status of Awaken Humanity is still "active" but there are a few "oddities" associated with this newest member of the "Awaken" family:


a. The registration year for the corporation Awaken Humanity is 2007.


Note the date given for the copyright information on the following messages by Erwin McManus.


"Leadership"


http://odeo.com/audio/1235756/view


For more information, visit mosaic.org. Copyright 2006 Awaken Humanity. #20060521



“New Under the Sun”


http://odeo.com/audio/3565573/view


For more information, visit mosaic.org. Copyright 2006 Awaken Humanity. #20061203





Keep in mind, Awaken Humanity became it's own legal entity in 2007 while Awaken was incorporated as a legal entity in 2005.


Then there is this strange blog entry written by an employee of Erwin McManus' Awaken:


Blog: Soulscape

Awaken Humanity
By Alan Luu • July 7, 2006

Awaken Humanity…or rather awakenhumanity.org — that’s the website for my new employer, Awaken.

Awaken belongs to Erwin McManus, the pastor of my church, Mosaic. Some call it the “public face” of Mosaic. Others know it as the non-profit company that puts on the Origins Conference, in conjunction with Mosaic. In the future, Awaken hopes to be known for producing cutting edge films, for its music label, and more. Whatever Awaken is, I am now one of its employees, responsible for some IT support, as well as for managing its websites (awakenhumanity.org, mosaicalliance.org, erwinmcmanus.com, theoriginsproject.org).

So here we have a clear example of the names Awaken and Awaken Humanity being used interchangeably to refer to the same entity.

Whatever Awaken is

Sadly, it seems that this question along with many other questions regarding Mosaic, Awaken and the man himself will not be answered any time soon through an interview with Erwin McManus.

Yvonne W.